June 9, 2009 -- In celebration of American Express Women's Golf Month, PGA.com convened a panel of the some of the most illustrious and influential women in the golf industry to discuss, dissect and celebrate the state of women's golf. Though each member of the panel brings a lifetime of insight and experience, the unique perspectives from each -- aggregated in one forum -- creates a conversation that cannot be replicated anywhere else, and will provide the readers of PGA.com a perspective and enjoyment of women's golf that can only benefit the entire golf industry.

In part two of the round table, the panel discusses what barriers are in place, internally within the industry and externally outside of the golf course, that are keeping women from making golf a bigger part of their lives.

PGA.com Women's Panel: (from left to right) Carol Mann, Sandy Labauve, Suzy Whaley, Dr. Renee Powell and Pam Swensen. (bios below)

John: Let's cut right to the chase. How overt is sexism on the golf course? Are there any policy barriers to getting women in golf that you know of? Are there any club restrictions of 'Women's day is Tuesday' or 'only after 3?' I don't know of any but I'm sure that if there are, you would know better than I.

Carol: "I'm going to say that the answer to that is yes. As long as there are private clubs that are extremely high end - they're not the majority anymore - that's why more and more women, I think, are able to sustain their activity in golf, and on more than one just 'Ladies' Day.' That's why the Executive Women Golf Association has been a very powerful lobby; not directly lobbying, Pam, but your economic lobbying to expand the number of days women play. And the thing is public golf courses don't have those kinds of policies. Private golf still has those policies.

Sandy: "John, I would also add to that too that some of the barriers are not as blatant; some of the barriers are just how the course is set up. And, some of the golf courses are set up in such a difficult way that women don't want to play there.

John: "And by 'set up' do you mean the actual layout itself, meaning the architecture?"

Sandy: "The layout of the golf courses; where the tees are located; the carries. I think that part of what we do is in encouraging women to play. They want to feel comfortable when they show up, and they want to be able to have a nice experience and if it's a golf course where they're not going to score well or play well, and if it's a frustrating experience, they're not going there.

Pam: "I think John, it would be an unwritten barrier because I hear it from my members all the time; that 'Oh, that was a great experience at that XYZ course.' Or 'Oh at that one, they clearly didn't want us there.'

John: "That's interesting, kind of eye-opening from a male perspective here. Carol, you and I have talked about just driving up to the course, and how intimidating that can be in terms of where the first tee is; where the women's rest room is."

Carol: "Well as a woman you walk in the golf shop and you're basically invisible to the staff there. I'm sorry but there's still that going on.

Pam: "Absolutely. That's why there are these unwritten barriers in getting women to feel comfortable and welcome in the sport. So when you ask the question, you know, 'Why should men want women to be in the game?' well, they're making the purchasing decisions for their families. They can certainly impact revenues at a private facility. And they can talk with their wallets and their feet.

Suzy: "And you were talking about the vacation end of it too. There are so many women who have an influence in the choice of where they go on family vacations, or vacations with the spouse, and if they're in the game, that becomes part of their vacation. And if they're not, then the gentleman is begging to figure out how he can get a round of golf in while they are on vacation.

John: "That brings up an interesting point....What drives women's golf? And what I mean by that is, is it from the grass roots level up? Is it women wanting to spend more time with their families out on the golf course, to find activities to do, vacation together? Or is it kind of from the top down, from the LPGA, or watching the top players in the LPGA and trying to emulate their success?"

Carol: "I think it's far more grass roots. It's far more local than that; than being influenced by the LPGA. Although I think young girls may be influenced, in part, by the role models in the LGPA tour. I don't think adult females are that influenced by that, or stimulated by that, so I definitely think it is local, and it has to do with friends and the sociability that they experience when they get out there with their friends; or the strange dynamics that occur when they're out there with their male partner. (laughs) I say strange dynamics because it could be anywhere from pleasant to horrible.

Suzy: "Right on the money, Carol"

Sandy: "I would concur that it is about the friendship and the camaraderie and the fun, as opposed to just about the score.

John: "Suzy, you've said that to me before, that women play golf for different reasons than men."

Suzy: "Yeah, I do think they play for the sociability obviously that's a general statement. There are some men that also play for the sociability of it, but I think women definitely play for greater sociability, fun, health and wellness. I'm not sure many of my male students are thinking 'Well, today I'm going to burn off 400 calories walking on the course,' but there are some that probably do. But my females are definitely more into having time that is multi-tasking. As a female, if you get your family with you, then you get your exercise, you see your friends, and you spend one-on-one time with the people you're with. No cell phones, no blackberry's, no e-mails, no text messaging. That's time that I'm seeking as a parent for my family and what a great option for me to be able to go out on the golf course with them to do it."

John: "So, in a sense, Carol said that the Women's Golf Month was a celebration of golf....

Renee: "Absolutely right"

John: "...so then would your explanation of kind of the perspective differences of men's golf and women's golf, again, very generically speaking, it sounds to me like that, in many ways should kind of be the message for the month; it's a celebration of not just the game, but the experiences the games bring; whether it's with your close friend or your family."

Suzy: "And whether it happens in June or in December, it doesn't matter. The thing is there's a focus during the month of June to stimulate new awareness, new observations, new possibilities for women and the game of golf.

Pam: "John you asked earlier 'Did we think it was a danger to do it one month and what message was that giving?' And I think that we're very conditioned to that monthly program. You know, in the sense you have Breast Cancer Month, and you have different issue months, where they're just focusing on that and just hitting it really hard and letting people know what's out there and what's available. And it is not about that we're just doing it this month, it's about 'Here's what's going on.' Now, take the rest of the eleven months, and let's grow this game.

John: "So do you think that some of the hostility, again, if that's the right word, that women sometimes encounter, whether it's a policy or just a general atmosphere; do you think that it's an intentional or an unintentional thing? Do you think that people actually give it thought? And I'm speaking from a perspective where I may be just as guilty as anybody, but never in an intentional mind. I had just never really thought about 'Do I ever go out of my way to either welcome or to join somebody on the tee or anything like that?' I mean, is that a fair perception? A group of guys see a couple women about to head to the first tee and think 'We've got to get out before them because they'll be slow all day.'

Pam: "There are definitely stereotypes out there. That's pretty intentional."

Sandy: "I would say that there are both. You know, really, I think that the stereotypes exist and people run from them. And on the other hand, women haven't been heard a lot of time. We don't speak up and voice that we need the respect, and we have questions and we need answers to them. And I think that that's a problem.

John: "Pam, your organization there, the EWGA, is there an age group, or are there any criteria for membership other than being female?

Pam: "Not really. We say it's the Executive Women's Golf Association, but truthfully, it can be every woman's golf association, because we really market ourselves to the working woman, because our programs are in the evenings and on the weekends as opposed to a Tuesday women's golf day. But it's all about providing the opportunities for women to connect, learn, play, and have fun; whether it's for business or for purely recreational purposes. And I just want to say, when we talk about golf in general, one of the things that I think women look for, and I kind of came up with the term "The 4 F's:" fun, fitness, friendship, and fresh air.

John: "I think that's great. The thing I have is, is there a place, a group, an organization that everyone knows is kind of the go-to for women? I'll give an example is there an online community where women interact; try to find playing partners with each other, etc...? Is that your group Pam? Do you guys have that ability?

Pam: "We have chapters that pair up people. I would think that there are many online golf communities but some of them, there are different types of groups. There are singles golf groups, there's of course the EWGA, there's all kinds of initiative online today.

Carol: "Well here in Houston, there are women's golf charities, and these women play golf on Mondays at many of the closed course on Mondays. You know, a lot of the private clubs that are closed, and they pay like $45 to go play there, and the fees are often reduced for them to come because 100 of them show up. You get $4,500 for that. And they have lunch, and you know what these people do with their money at the end of their fiscal year? They give a lot of money to charities, because they make money along the way.

John: "I think that there is a hunger and eagerness, I'll give you just a quick anecdotal. You know, on everybody's favorites nowadays, the idea of Facebook. There is a PGA.com Facebook fan page. And it's fairly new; it's got close to 2,000 people following it. But one of the things that I've noticed about it is that there is a great amount of engagement with that page. And I'd say, probably a high percentage, I don't want to give out a number, but a high percentage. If you look right now, the top three posts by someone that isn't an administrator of the page, is by a woman. It's like they want to talk golf, they want to be involved in the discussion. I'm just wondering if there was a place, a go-to place? Even on the Twitter account, which I've just started a Twitter account, and I'm not sure why, but I notice there is a very large number of female, kind of self-deemed golf journalists.

Pam: "Yes, they're everywhere. We just started a Facebook page, we're on LinkedIn, and it's getting more and more active everyday.

John: "Yeah, so going back to what we talked about earlier, in terms of trends, that's got to be a good thing to see people more interactive online. Should that translate to more time out on the course.

Pam: "We certainly want that to happen.

Suzy: "On the reverse side of that, though, on a negative flip, is that I started, a couple months ago, PGA of America female professional page, and an LPGA professional page, where instructors, head professionals, or whoever was a member of each organization could get together and really share ideas and thoughts about how to grow our business, mentoring, junior golf, and women's golf. And they've not been hit at all. So of the LPGA, I probably have 50 people, and of the PGA female membership I probably have 25. And they've been up for a couple months. So while the people, the consumers, are looking for more information, I'm not sure that our membership is engaging the way it should be.

John: "But then that's a great point. Is that where the bottleneck is? The appetite and the hunger is out there amongst the public and the consumer, we just don't have the proper conduit right now to get them out on the course.

Suzy: "I think we have a conduit. It goes right back to what Carol said in the very beginning of the conversation. We have American Express Women's Golf Month, we have fact sheets and touch points that we offer professionals all across the country about how to have a great event. In Connecticut, I have 15 golf professionals signed up. I think that's a really sad testament to our programming.

Pam: "Suzy, do you think that part of that thought has to do with time, and the work that we're doing at the same time that all these things are going on? And how much time we have to spend online conversing during the busy season?

Suzy: "I think the online part certainly. Yes, I think that people are just tired. They come home and they don't want to talk about golf. That's what they've taught for ten hours. I agree with you there. However, as far as 15 professionals being signed up, the problem with that, I think, is some professionals do host events and just don't choose to sign them up. Or they have a women's event at their facility and say 'Well I already do that. Why do I need to be involved in American Express WGM?' Not seeing the bigger picture that the more we can get the word out across the country and the more we can participate, the more traction we have nationally at the PSA level; on a sponsorship level. I think that professionals are becoming more and more insular as their jobs become more and more stressful. And this is obviously just my opinion, but I think as Sandy was saying, yes. People are stressed, they're worried, they're worried about their jobs, they're worried about rounds, and they're worried about revenue. However, at the same time, we better pay attention to the consumer, because that's what's going to bring that all back to us.

Pam: "You know we were all excited when we talked about American Express WGM, that facilities would host special events. And then particularly with the launch of Get Golf Ready, it would be a nice segue into perpetuating that involvement. Then hopefully that would trigger more involvement and longevity as we move forward.

Next week's panel discussion will discuss if growing women's golf means it's okay to market "sexiness" and if it helps or hurts the LPGA that such a strong foriegn influx has come in and dominated the game.

PGA.com Women's Panel:

Carol Mann: LPGA Hall of Fame member. 36 LPGA wins. Former President of the LPGA. 2008 PGA First Lady of Golf. PGA Professional.

Sandy LaBauve: PGA Professional, Golf Magazine Top 100 Teacher

Suzy Whaley: PGA Professional. First female in 58 years to qualify to play in a PGA Tour event. Two-time Connecticut PGA Teacher of the Year. National Spokeswoman for American Express Women's Golf Month.

Dr. Renee Powell: Former LPGA player. PGA Professional. Awarded Honorary Doctorate from famed St. Andrews University in Scotland.

Pam Swensen: CEO of Executive Women's Golf Association.